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Litchfield, NH Community Message Board
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User: Elwood
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Posted: 2009/10/04 7:13am   |
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Hi Justin,
Thanks for answering my questions.
Just to be up front, I do not have any children at CHS, but they will start arriving next year and I would like to have an idea of what we will experience.
I did have a few more if you don't mind. If the student does poorly on the retake – can there be a second or possibly a third retake? Is this pilot program being done in specific subject areas or across the curriculum? Is it targeted at upperclassmen or the whole school? While I agree that this process is good in principle, once the students learn the system will it become counterproductive?
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/04 1:04pm |
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As opposed to sorting through a thread that has changed subjects a few times, I have decided to start this new thread in hopes to have a place for individuals to go in order to ask questions or voice their perceptions as to the new pilot grading program at CHS.
Please understand that I will attempt to answer any questions pertaining to this topic as best I can, as I am using the program in all of the classes I teach.
Thanks for your time
Justin Ballou
CHS Social Studies
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/04 1:38pm |
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Good Afternoon,
To answer your questions:
| Quote: | | If the student does poorly on the retake – can there be a second or possibly a third retake? |
No, a student gets one retake per assignment. It would, as you have questioned towards the end of your posting, become counter-productive if the students were to retake again and again and again. The idea is that if we teach-test-reteach-retest, students will find the tools and methods that work for them so that they may progress to a point of teach-test effectively.
| Quote: | | Is this pilot program being done in specific subject areas or across the curriculum? |
The Pilot Program is being run in classes throughout the curriculm and grade levels at the high school. The reason for doing this volunteer pilot is to match up the practical effectiveness with the research and data that is out that is conducive to proving the effectiveness of the pilot. Prior to change, it is good to know that what sounds good on paper is also effective in real life, so in order to get a representation that is accurate, it should be run in many disciplines and age groups.
| Quote: | | While I agree that this process is good in principle, once the students learn the system will it become counterproductive? |
In what I have seen thus far, if they "learn the system" then they effectively will not have to use the possibility of the retakes and extra time and effort, since they will see that doing it correct the first time saves both time and energy, freeing them up to focus on other areas of their education or well-being.
Case in point, group work done in class may not be effective for a student so they do poorly on the first test. They then go home, outline and take notes on a section, and take a different assessment to guage what they know and they realize that it is an effective method for them. For the next assessment, they would most likely use the effective method of taking the information in, (notes and outline) while reviewing and do great on the first assesment, thus allowing them to take the reteach-retest time they would have spent on doing something more productive. (enrichment, other subject matter, sports practice, etc...)
I hope this helps!
Thanks
Justin
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User: A Town Resident
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Posted: 2009/10/04 5:09pm |
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| I'm a bit confused ... a student does poorly on a test after group work ... do they take notes during group work? If that is the case then the student is at a disadvantage since s/he cannot take proper notes ... what will happen the next time there is group work to be done? Will this same student be at a disadvantage again because s/he cannot take proper notes? Does the school offer a class for freshmen on how to study? Just curious ...
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User: A Town Resident
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Posted: 2009/10/04 5:10pm |
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| Do you teach all grades of high school?
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/04 5:50pm |
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| Quote: | | I'm a bit confused ... a student does poorly on a test after group work ... do they take notes during group work? If that is the case then the student is at a disadvantage since s/he cannot take proper notes ... what will happen the next time there is group work to be done? Will this same student be at a disadvantage again because s/he cannot take proper notes? |
I was just attempting to use a simple example with the group work. Of course when teaching a new concept, their may be note taking, group work, discussion, worksheets, etc.... all together in different combinations. Once the test is complete, and we see that the student did not "get" the material the first time, the teacher and student come up with a plan of action via the contract as to what will happen before allowing the retake.
With the retakes I have given, I have the students identify why they feel that they did poorly on the first assessment. More times than not, they say that they either didn't study or didn't study effectively. Using this information, the teacher and the student work out what needs to be done to insure that the student "gets" the material and is simply not just passing by. With the teach-test-reteach-retest method, we are able to not only see, but work out the downfalls that students have at the individual level, instead of just having a teacher teach to the average and let those in the high get bored and those in the low get lost.
I hope this helps to clear things up!
Thanks
Jusitn
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/04 5:57pm |
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| Quote: | | Do you teach all grades of high school? |
I have taught Freshmen, Juniors and Seniors. At this point, I am teaching Juniors and Seniors.
I will say that in discussions with other faculty members and the student body that I am involved with, (Freshmen class advisor, Puerto Rico Learning Experience Learning trip coordinator, Drama/Theater, etc...) I am seeing self-ownership of education at all grade levels. Many of the students will come in and ask what extra they can do to prepare, or will be more on the ball as to when the next Summative assesment is coming in order to prepare correctly. What we seem to have going for the program for all classes is that their is more people getting involved with the process and are reaping the benefits of being involved, whether it be students, parents, or teachers.
Thanks
Justin
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User: Peter Moore
Name: Peter Moore
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Posted: 2009/10/05 10:08am |
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| When there is a re-test, is the original test grade eliminated and replaced with the re-test grade? Is there any penalty imposed on the grade of the re-test?
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User: tmatthews
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Posted: 2009/10/05 11:14am |
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Justin, thank you for taking the time to respond to these concerns regarding this pilot program by providing firsthand knowledge of the issue you are giving the residents much more information than the existence of the program itself.
I have one question; if the students take the time to retake the test on past subject matter don't they run the very real risk of falling behind on current material? Since they are focusing on already passed material it would seem that the cycle is perpetuated by this program.
Thank you in advance for your time.
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/05 3:45pm |
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Peter,
To answer your question.....
| Quote: | | When there is a re-test, is the original test grade eliminated and replaced with the re-test grade? Is there any penalty imposed on the grade of the re-test? |
The retest grade is put in place of the original and there is no penalty imposed due to the fact that a grade should be a representation of what the student knows. In assessment, we use data to either:
A. modify instructional practices in order to insure lessons are being learned, or...
B. Attempt to verify what a student knows and can do.
If we penalize a student that comes in and does phenominal on the retest, then we are penalizing the fact that the student went out on their own time and did extra in order to learn the material. It is for this reason that we change the type of assessment, as we want to make sure the student knows what he or she is doing rather than just editing and copying from one test to another. Over a few assessments, students start using effective methods on their own time in order to get the great grade and understand material without needing you use the relearn-retest portion of the process and they start doing well the first time.
I hope this answers your question. Please keep in touch.
Justin
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/05 3:58pm |
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Tyler,
To answer your question....
| Quote: | I have one question; if the students take the time to retake the test on past subject matter don't they run the very real risk of falling behind on current material? Since they are focusing on already passed material it would seem that the cycle is perpetuated by this program.
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Due to the fact that the retakes are in a brief time span, (2 weeks maximum) and their are stipulations in order to earn the possibility to take a retake, (turning an effort-based assignment in on time, remidiation, contract, review sessions, etc...) Then the student does not run the risk of falling behind due to the fact of the specific needs of the student that are being met. Most retakes are done in a fashion to determine the students weankness in either content or skill and reteach material in various methods to convey the information the best way possible, (usually after school, in a study hall, or at home on the students "down" time....) Regular class does go on, and the reteach-retest situation that evolves from retakes is extremely focused as opposed to just allowing a student to walk in at the end of the semester and ask for make-up work.
If a student is struggling, this intervention helps both the student and the teacher to identify the problem and then fix it. The motivation on the students behalf makes way for positive growth and understanding of content as seen in the retest grade comparison to the original test scores. Students then take these new methods that they know are effective, (since they work for the retakes,) and apply them before the next summative to help insure the best possible results on the next Summative assignment, thus not needing the retake policy next time around.
Thanks for the question! Please let me know if there is anything else I can offer in regards to clarification.
Best,
Justin
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User: tmatthews
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Posted: 2009/10/05 4:31pm |
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Justin, one of your statements suggested that the student can "take the test home" and complete it during "Down" time.
I would hope that could be removed from the policy - what is stopping the student from opening the textbook to obtain the answer? How can an educator ensure the student has learned anything if the test is brought home and taken with no supervision?
All in all I have one major concern with the policy (and to be upfront I have two very young children not yet in the school system). If this policy sticks what is stopping Colleges and Universities from taking the grades out of CHS with a grain of salt and equaling a GPA of 3.2 to a GPA of 2.8 in other school systems?
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User: A Town Resident
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Posted: 2009/10/05 5:39pm |
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How many times during the academic year can a student do the re-teach/re-test cycle? In other words, Johnny opted not to do homework at the beginning of the year, fails his first quiz/test whatever ... goes to the teacher and agrees to the contract, does the homework, figures out (maybe) what he did wrong ... aces the re-test ... so for a month or two or three he does the homework and projects and isn't acing tests but is doing above average ... can he then assume that he has an understanding and go back to NOT doing the homework and then fail the big test? Will he get the re-teach/re-learn option?
Also, how does this this apply, or does it apply, to the end of semester exams?
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User: Hemi8
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Posted: 2009/10/05 8:17pm |
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| Are the tests used for re-testing designed to be more difficult than the original test? If a student scores lower on the re-test, is that still the grade they receive? Can a student that scores well on a test request to re-take a test in hopes of doing even better?
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/05 11:23pm |
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Tyler,
To answer your question....
| Quote: | | Justin, one of your statements suggested that the student can "take the test home" and complete it during "Down" time. |
When I made the suggestion of down time, I meant the students reteach methods, (additional work, assignments, reviews, etc...). The make-up tests are done in school, closed book as long as they are in the test/quiz format. If it is a project, (and this goes to answer the question posed by Hemi8), then the assignment can be edited, modified, and adapted to make corrections and be resubmitted.....as like a draft for a paper would be once a student gets feedback from a teacher.
| Quote: | | How many times during the academic year can a student do the re-teach/re-test cycle? In other words, Johnny opted not to do homework at the beginning of the year, fails his first quiz/test whatever ... goes to the teacher and agrees to the contract, does the homework, figures out (maybe) what he did wrong ... aces the re-test ... so for a month or two or three he does the homework and projects and isn't acing tests but is doing above average ... can he then assume that he has an understanding and go back to NOT doing the homework and then fail the big test? Will he get the re-teach/re-learn option? |
A student is allowed to retake an assignment once as long as they turn in an asssignment on time on the due date. If the student does this over and over and over again, then the student gradually builds the skills and knowledge to be graded at the grade at which they walk out of the classroom with.
If a student decides towards the end of the semester to give up and not do any work, s/he can do the retake if they accomodate to the contract that has been set up. (Of course this is on a student-specific basis...) which more than likely would include that a student must do work to show that they "deserve" a retake before they take the retake. This basically tells the students that the punishment for not doing your work is the fact that "you have to do the work." At the point in which a student shows that they have gained the knowledge and the skill, then the goal of them taking the class is met. Keep in mind that with a combination of student and teacher motivation along with the at-home component fostered through communication tools such as edline, the student leaves at the end of the semester knowing the information and having the implied lesson that failure is not an end, but instead an opportunity to better themselves and their situation.
| Quote: | | Are the tests used for re-testing designed to be more difficult than the original test? If a student scores lower on the re-test, is that still the grade they receive? Can a student that scores well on a test request to re-take a test in hopes of doing even better? |
1. Tests done for retakes take different forms than the original test, but difficulty is roughly the same. Questions and methods are different in order to insure that the same test is not given twice.
2. If the student scores lower on the retake, the highest score stands.
3. A student, as long as they want to go through the steps to "earn" a retake to better themselves, mor power to them. I would not only hope but ENCOURAGE students to fix mistakes to learn from them and better themselves.
Lastly,
| Quote: | | Also, how does this this apply, or does it apply, to the end of semester exams? |
This would not appy to final exams due to the schedule and the concept that the Final exam is the last part of the class. Almost like all of the teach-test-reteach-retest has gotten the student ready for the finals.
Thanks for the questions. I am glad that their is such a great interest in this topic, and I hope that you are recieving the answers that you are looking for.
Good night all,
Justin
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User: Chris
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Posted: 2009/10/06 8:38am |
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Justin, thanks for taking the time to answer these questions. This issue is important. I can definately see the interest, excitement and concern with this program, which is the reason for my question. My question is not specific, but more general of the program.
This program of teach, test, re-teach, re-test replaced some other program that was the "standard". My question is; what were the problems/issues with the previous program that this new pilot program is to hopefully correct?
And, more specifically, what was the downside of the system that many of us grew up with, which was all students must do their homework, then take the test?
It was said that no other community in New Hampshire is using this system. Question; Is that correct, and if so, why do you believe that is?
I do not believe that anyone here would ever be against any system, program, etc that is better than what is current. So I am happy to see that these questions are being asked and answers being provided, so interested people can come to their own conclusions.
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User: tmatthews
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Posted: 2009/10/06 11:02am |
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Justin, if you would please respond to my concern I would very much appreciate it. I understand it is just your opinion and not fact.
Isn't it possible that having a policy such as this could potentially devalue grades in the eyes of higher education. Do you agree or disagree with that concern?
I am sure not all students will partake in this process BUT since a college or university cannot know whether or not a student took part the only possible solution is to devalue all grades for a graduate of CHS.
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User: Cooch41
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Posted: 2009/10/06 11:39am |
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| Tyler wrote: | | Isn't it possible that having a policy such as this could potentially devalue grades in the eyes of higher education. |
I went to a workshop over the weekend on US secondary education (high school) and a big concern nationally is that on average 40% of incoming freshman and in some states as high as 70% to 80% of graduating high school seniors need remedial courses in college. A high school that sends it's graduates who have proven their mastery of the subjects and are prepared to learn college material is a plus for a high school. Colleges want kids who have mastered the subjects needed to be successful in college. We have a very high rate of college acceptance including very top level colleges. After graduating 7 years of students, we have a very good reputation with the colleges our kids have applied to. I see this new pilot resulting in even better preparedness.
From my own experience sending kids to college, as well as friends who have been through the same thing at CHS, we have found our kids are much better prepared than their incoming college freshman peers. At one orientation, college sophmores were talking about the shock of college expectations and as they described the "higher expectations" I looked at a fellow CHS parent and she said, "Our kids are already used to those kinds of work requirements."
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User: Jason
Name: Jason Guerrette
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Posted: 2009/10/06 1:19pm |
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| Quote: | | I went to a workshop over the weekend on US secondary education (high school) and a big concern nationally is that on average 40% of incoming freshman and in some states as high as 70% to 80% of graduating high school seniors need remedial courses in college |
and your argument is little ole Litchfield is better than everyone else?
| Quote: | | A high school that sends it's graduates who have proven their mastery of the subjects and are prepared to learn college material is a plus for a high school. |
Simply saying it in no way means we are actually succeed at doing it. Our SAT scores are are lower that the average.
| Quote: | | Colleges want kids who have mastered the subjects needed to be successful in college. |
Of course they do, that does not prove we are doing that.
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We have a very high rate of college acceptance including very top level colleges |
And how does that prove they actually know anything or to what level they know it? Colleges see transcripts of grades we give our students. Let us say we are easy graders and all of our students get a 4.0. Does that prove they are smart kids or simply that our goal was to get them 4.0's? How does a college determine who to accept? Many factors are weighed and pretending or making ourselves feel good by making it easier to graduate is not one of them.
| Quote: | | I see this new pilot resulting in even better preparedness. |
I see it as just the opposite. Kids will find the path of least resistence....because they are KIDS.....it is what they do. Yes, there are those that will do their very best in eveeything they do, but those kids would have reached beyond no matter what system is in place. Mr. Clark, last years bright star would have been so, regardless of the system.
I worry about the average kids. The ones that will do little work, squeak by getting B's and C's and never really have to apply themselves. Those are the ones we are dumbing down.
| Quote: | | From my own experience sending kids to college, as well as friends who have been through the same thing at CHS, we have found our kids are much better prepared than their incoming college freshman peers. At one orientation, college sophmores were talking about the shock of college expectations and as they described the "higher expectations" I looked at a fellow CHS parent and she said, "Our kids are already used to those kinds of work requirements." |
Yes, you are the other elites have no problem with this becuase it only hurts the common folk. Good for you! Make education only really good for those that need it least. Bravo!
Sarcasm.....you bet!
Attached is the latest Alumni Survey.
past graduates speak of wanting more:
Real life assignments
More AP classes
More projects
More Math and Science
Learning how to study
More writing skills
It also said
Made me accountable for homework and deadlines
I need to take responsibility
Helped install attention to detail
Under best ppart of Campbell
All relationship comments. No one mentioned how good their education was.
These are comments from actual people that went to our high school. What it says to me, is that after going off and living life for a few years and reflecting back, they would have wanted a more stringent experience with more accountability. And yet, here we are actually giving them less and requiring less....just show up, squeal by and we will pat you on the back and tell you that you have a top notch education.
Good for us!! We will all feel better about ourselves because we convinced ourselves it 'for the kids'
Does anyone think America got here because we did less woork? We are becoming a nation of service providers and losing our place in the word or engineering and invention. All because we are teaching our kids it is ok to be mediocre.
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/06 9:28pm |
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Good Evening all,
To answer the questions that have been posed....
Chris asked....
| Quote: | This program of teach, test, re-teach, re-test replaced some other program that was the "standard". My question is; what were the problems/issues with the previous program that this new pilot program is to hopefully correct?
And, more specifically, what was the downside of the system that many of us grew up with, which was all students must do their homework, then take the test?
It was said that no other community in New Hampshire is using this system. Question; Is that correct, and if so, why do you believe that is?
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The Ne Pilot program offers students the opportunity to use their personal drive, self motivation and elf directed learning in order to better their grade, and thus their understanding of the concepts. Prior to the pilot program, a student may have settled with the 75% they recieved and moved on, since they were not able to make corrections, relearn material or skills that they didnt understand, and push themselves along. The grades then at the end of e semester then represent the fact that after one try, the student was able to learn so much. With the new pilot, and the ability to reteach using various methods, the student can identify their short comings, mak modifications under the guidance of a teacher, and create an environment where they can keep investing in their own education. This empowerment and assumption of personal reponsibility allows the student to figure out what works and what does not so they may become an effective self-directed learner. this leads to an increase in knowledge obtained and skill sets that are succesful, allowing them to learn more of the information.
Second, the pilot is not being used to say that the "old" method of teaching is wrong, instead it puts the ball more in the students court with focused direction from a teacher. We are still using and expecting what we were in the past, we just see an increase in motivation and student learning when a student is able to take control of their situation. A great example of this is seen in the standard writingprocess, where we ask the student to create a draft, and then edit the draft to fix any issues. We just see this mentality and apply it to all subjects, not just writing.
On the Homework issue, students are still expected to do the formatives and take an in class test, but assignments that carry the most weight are those that test what the student KNOWS. HW assignments are still completed to teach and reinforce concepts, but they are not counted for credit as highly, since they are used in order for the students to learn as opposed to showing what the students know. Almost as if we use the assignments for practice to get us ready to "show and prove" at the time of the test.
In my personal opinion, what we end up doing is opening the door for students to be motivated to succeed and be self driven, which in the real world is the ultimate goal......we want self directed learners and sudents that seize opportunities when they see them......and not just settle for the bear minimum. Other states have been using this standard as well, and have seen success in te classroom. My personal feeling is that NH is progressing, and this method, which is based upon research and application, is now hitting home. In all honesty, any innovation has to start somewhere, and since Litchfield is piloting in order to test the effeciveness of the theory, I belive that we are ahead of the curve.
Thanks for your questions....let me know if their is something I missed.
Justin
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/06 9:37pm |
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Tyler,
To answer your question....
| Quote: | | Isn't it possible that having a policy such as this could potentially devalue grades in the eyes of higher education. Do you agree or disagree with that concern? |
This policy cannot devalue grades, since Colleges and Universities want to know what a student knows.....not how they learned it. This policy allows for the students to find out what hey know, make corrections on their own time directed at their individual learning styles, and then prove that they know the information using a seperate test, (so we are not just teaching to the test, rather testing on content and skill) The grade at the end of the semester then becomes a more accurate reading of what the student knows and understands, since they are allowed to learn from their mistakes instead of just settling for what they earned the first time. They are given the opportunity to expand their own learning and thus walk away from the class having more tools and retaining more knowledge, which in turn prepares them for the rigor of college, military, specialized training, etc.
Please let me know if I can b of any other help.
Thanks,
Justin
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/06 10:13pm |
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Jason,
With this post, I hope to clear up any misconceptions that you have identified in your prior post.
| Quote: | | Our SAT scores are are lower that the average. |
Prior to the pilot, the methods that have been used could be then justified as needing modification. We run the pilot before implementing policy in order to see the effectiveness of the rocess. In my classroom, I have seen a drastic increase in discussion, class/homework, and participation.....making students active parts of their own education. These skills may then be applied to how we prep for our larger, summative assessments......If we see that something doesnt work, should we attempt to fix it?
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I see this new pilot resulting in even better preparedness.
I see it as just the opposite. Kids will find the path of least resistence....because they are KIDS.....it is what they do. Yes, there are those that will do their very best in eveeything they do, but those kids would have reached beyond no matter what system is in place. Mr. Clark, last years bright star would have been so, regardless of the system.
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True students will take the path of least resistance.....and students will realize what study methods are effective in order to bypass the need for the retake opportunity. They then will modify their techniques in order to ensure that they get the best grade possible within the least time. If anything, the pilot gives the opportunity for students to do MORE work in order to learn and show what they are capable of.....this situation lets those "average" kids the ability to reach farther than they have and apply their strengths and efforts to better themselves.
| Quote: | I worry about the average kids. The ones that will do little work, squeak by getting B's and C's and never really have to apply themselves. Those are the ones we are dumbing down.
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In fact, since we are expecting the students to not only do the work and see what they know, but also make revisions and prove they know more, we are doing the complete opposite. These students, those with B's and C's have a choice.....settle for the B' and C's they would have had anyway......or apply themselves, learn more, and show us that they know more by taking another, diferent test.....this is the "show and prove" mentality that we want.....grades that represent what a student knows and can do instead of how much work they completed. (quantity of work opposed to quality....the pilot looks for quality....proof that they truly know material.)
| Quote: | Attached is the latest Alumni Survey.
past graduates speak of wanting more:
Real life assignments
More AP classes
More projects
More Math and Science
Learning how to study
More writing skills
It also said
Made me accountable for homework and deadlines
I need to take responsibility
Helped install attention to detail
Under best ppart of Campbell
All relationship comments. No one mentioned how good their education was.
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So, I ask you to take into consideration the fact that the pilot IS MORE like real life, since when we are adults, we are able to consistently modify whatwe do to get the best result.Students become more responsible with the pilot since they TAKE CONTROL of their education since they are given the ability to push forward as opposed to settle. In context, this alumni survey was completed and the students you identify are asking for what this pilot program has the potential to do. I believe that it is irrational to dismiss its capabilities before seeing if it works. Like everything we do to improve ourselves, a chance needs to be taken and we need to learn from our experiences and the pilot program maps out a way for students to do just that.
In closing, I hope that I have laid to rest a few of your concerns, and I invite further discussion for clarification on this reply.
Have a wonderful evening
Justin
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User: Chris
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Posted: 2009/10/07 7:37am |
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Justin, Thanks for answering all those questions. You make some very convincing points. But, just like most things, there are probably some flaws in this program. I hope you and all the other teachers honestly evaluate every aspect of this program and report back to us what worked and what did not work. It is easy to talk about what is right, but we owe it to our students and this community to talk about, and try to correct what is wrong.
I still have a concern on the point that Tyler expressed (about CHS grade point average compared to that of another school). There is something to be said about learning, doing homework and testing. Even though the grade may not be the best, it is what it is. With this program, in theory, just about everyone should get an A. And if you still get a poor grade after the re-tests, that means trouble. Looking at it from an employers or college application point of view, it would be very difficult to see who is really an A student from the get-go, as opposed to the A student after giving many second chances. It appears that you can determine who is a poor student a lot easier and faster, than you can determine who is an exceptional student. But, I may be wrong, We'll have to see.
Last question.....Must all teachers in Campbell use this grading system, or do they have a choice? Have any teachers (specifically teachers who have been teaching for many years) concerned or is resistant to changing to this program?
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/07 7:28pm |
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Chris,
Thanks for the constructive feedback. It is good to know that the extra efforts are appreciated. 
To answer your questions of....
| Quote: | still have a concern on the point that Tyler expressed (about CHS grade point average compared to that of another school). There is something to be said about learning, doing homework and testing. Even though the grade may not be the best, it is what it is. With this program, in theory, just about everyone should get an A. And if you still get a poor grade after the re-tests, that means trouble. Looking at it from an employers or college application point of view, it would be very difficult to see who is really an A student from the get-go, as opposed to the A student after giving many second chances. It appears that you can determine who is a poor student a lot easier and faster, than you can determine who is an exceptional student. But, I may be wrong, We'll have to see.
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The value of the stetment is at the core of this pilot program....there is a massive amount that can be said about learnig and being tested. What this program allows is to get to the very core of student based education by allowing them to learn the material in both a teachable method in class, (the "standard") and also find where their short comings are and rectify them. If a student takes their time, energy and hard work to earn an A and increase both their content knowledge and skill sets, I think that we are preparing them for the real world while fostering those implied lessons that make this country and America what it is today...hard working, motivated, driven and innovative. This model has been adpted for the work place and is effective in producing efficient workers with a plethora of tools at their disposal. Imagine what would happen if a scientist ran an experiment, failed, and then accepted the failure instead of making changes to the method and process to proceed! I have a strong feeling that many of the initiatives and innovations that we take for granted today would not be around if they just settled. (just for example...)
With the comment about....
| Quote: | | With this program, in theory, just about everyone should get an A. And if you still get a poor grade after the re-tests, that means trouble... |
This is exactly what we are shooting for.....students to walk away from the classroom that can prove that they mastered both the contents and techniques needed to be a productive citizen. From learning from their mistakes in the controlled environment of the clasroom, they can foster the growth to not make those mistakes when the stakes are raised outside of school...
| Quote: | | Looking at it from an employers or college application point of view, it would be very difficult to see who is really an A student from the get-go, as opposed to the A student after giving many second chances. It appears that you can determine who is a poor student a lot easier and faster, than you can determine who is an exceptional student. |
I feel that with this program, the colleges and employers want a combination of knowledge and skills. Practical real world experience that can go a lot farther than just a 4.0 on a transcript. (not that one is more important than the other...) Many things do go into effect at the onset of this scenario....with the pilot, we hope to prepare them to face those challenges head on with confidence that they CAN and WILL succeed.
[qoute]Last question.....Must all teachers in Campbell use this grading system, or do they have a choice? Have any teachers (specifically teachers who have been teaching for many years) concerned or is resistant to changing to this program?[/quote]
I am sorry to say that since I do not check the postings on here while I am at work, I will have to get back to you with specific numbers. (Do not want to misrepresent or skew...) I can tell you though that both young and more experience teachers throughout all of the disciplines have been using the pilot and I hear that they are finding much practical success. Right now, the choice is open and on a volunteer basis, since it is still a pilot. I will close with the fact that in speaking to two Seniors today, the tell me that they are investing more personal time and feel more responsible for their actions due to the pilot and what is expected. I asked them about the academic rigor and they say that more times than not, since they are given the opportunity to better themselves that they will try, even though it seems more dificult.....they feel as if they can constantly grow...
I hope this helps answer your questions. Please feel free to keep asking!
Have a great night,
Justin Ballou
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User: Chris
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Posted: 2009/10/07 10:34pm |
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| Thank you!
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/08 4:28pm |
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Chris,
In passing toady, I stopped by and spoke with administration to ask your question so I could come back to you with the numbers.
As of now, there are 22 out of 45 professionals that are using the pilot program in their classrooms on the volunteer basis in all disciplines at the school.
Let me know if I can be of any other help to you!
Thanks,
Justin Ballou
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User: KBD
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Posted: 2009/10/08 4:32pm |
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| What criteria is being used to determine whether this pilot program is a success or a failure?
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User: Peter Moore
Name: Peter Moore
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Posted: 2009/10/09 11:29am |
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That's an excellent question.
Can I have some definition/clarification?
Formative assignment
Summative assignment
Summative assessment (test??)
From what I'm reading, it sounds like not all homework is optional. I hope that is the case. Is this correct?
For me, high school was easy. College was another story entirely. In college, they don't wait for you to catch up. Once behind, it's very difficult to recover that lost ground. Especially when you're basically on your own for the very first time in your life... no parent keeping their eye on things. That's my biggest concern. Not having the capability to deal with the amount of workload in college is a big problem.
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User: A Town Resident
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Posted: 2009/10/09 12:11pm |
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| Cindy said there are some colleges that allow do-overs ... she named Clarkson U niversity as one ... perhaps that is the wave of the future ...
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User: Jason
Name: Jason Guerrette
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Posted: 2009/10/09 12:30pm |
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Perhaps you are right, Anja....we should all just throw our hands up in the air a give up because the newest and greatest fad is being forced upon us by 'professionals'. I mean, we have only become the greatest country on earth and how we were educating our kid was totally backwards....after all, those methods of teaching that brought us all here was a tragedy....
yes Peter, drama!!
We are buying into a continual down grade in educating our kids. I speak to many business leaders that can not find anyone with much work ethic. Who gives a crap about grades if no one wants to work hard. That's right....the jobs no Americans want.....the one where effort is required. We are teaching our kids that work is not required.
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User: Peter Moore
Name: Peter Moore
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Posted: 2009/10/09 1:36pm |
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The jury is still out as far as I'm concerned about the program. I've heard some information about it, and there are questions still being answered. Jason, are you totally against considering new ways of doing things? Or are you just p/o'ed that Justin doesn't want to meet with you? I don't see you asking any questions of Justin, just offering up argument against the pilot. Do you have an open mind about this sort of thing, or have you already made up your mind? Seems to me that you have.
A couple other thoughts have occurred to me. And I qualify my thoughts to state that I don't know many details of the program.
- For a program that is a "pilot", having in place in just about half of CHS seems too much in my mind. Not saying that this is the case, but what if it backfires somehow? I hope we're not risking "half" of our students education.
- As suggested by Keri's question, there needs to be at least some measurable criteria that will allow the administration to judge the merit of the program. Note that teachers using the program "are finding much practical success" and two seniors stating that it's a success doesn't qualify as a meaningful evaluation of the program. I hope something more concrete will be used to judge the results.
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User: Jason
Name: Jason Guerrette
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Posted: 2009/10/09 2:49pm |
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Peter,
I 'll tell you what...I would prefer we use tried and PROVEN methods instead of always trying to fix what isn't broken. It isn't that we should try new things, its trying them without empirical evidence to show that it is successful.
Go Google it yourself....it just doesn't have any proven track record and I do not endorse laying this out on our children. Let someone else be the guinea pig, work out the bugs and then we can use it. It is absolutely ridiculous to believe proven methods can ot be employed in our schools for our kids.
This relies on the intrinsic motivation of teenagers. True, some will succeed at it, but they would have anyway no matter what system is in place. This will hurt those that need it most....the tweeners.....those that are in the middle...
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/09 3:46pm |
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Good Afternoon all,
KBD asked....
| Quote: | | What criteria is being used to determine whether this pilot program is a success or a failure? |
The criteria that is set up to see how effective the program is takes many forms both formal, (scores on Summative assessments, NECAP trends, SAT trends....etc....) and informal, (class participation, completion rates of the formative assessments, naturalistic observation, q&A techniques....etc....)
Due to the fact that in any type of comparrison you need the base and then the experimental group data trend, educators, administration, and guidance will be looking at tangible data to view improvements.
I can say in my own experience with class grades and participation compared to years prior where the pilot was not being used, that my students are showing a better understanding for both content and skills that are expected of them. I have a higher completion rate on both formatives and Summatives and the test scores have been improving significantly.
| Quote: | Can I have some definition/clarification?
Formative assignment
Summative assignment
Summative assessment (test??)
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The definitions of the types of assessments are as follows:
Formatives: (used FOR learning) help to act as reinforceres that teach new concepts and help to relay material to students. They are also used in order to guage what the students know and can do so that modifications to teaching style can be made in order to insure maximum efficiency.
Summatives: (used to SHOW what the students know or can do), are the assignments designed to act as evidence as to the quality and quantity of what the students have learned.
We place less credit on the assignments used for learning and put a majority of the credit on assignments on those assessments that are designed to show what the students know and can do, since that is what a final grade for a class or Unit should represent. not how many assignments were completed, but if the student has mastered the content and skills.
I would like to be clear in the fact that homework and classwork and other formative assignments are not optional, but are used in order to reinforce subject matter and information. Homework, classwork, afterschool reviews, other assignemts to teach these things are both assigned and condoned. And with this pilot, I am seeing higher completion rates of Homework and classwork as well as more questions and stronger review sessions that are STUDENT driven.
With the program, we gear them more towards the college model that is set up, as HW and class participation are not graded at the university level, (for the most part). What counts is the "big test" or "Thesis" at the end, (summative) that shows the prof. what the student knows.
I hope this helps,
Justin
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User: LibertyGal
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Posted: 2009/10/09 3:50pm |
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| After skimming through the posts about this pilot grading progam, I don't see an official name for it. Does it have one? I'd like to do some of my own research on it. Thanks.
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/09 4:04pm |
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Jason,
It seems in your posts that you are not articulating a specific question for me to answer, instead are stating your beliefs. I see that you had articulated concerns in a prior post, but you have not come with any other really new concerns, rather have repeated your own personal ideas.
Those comments that you have made that I can see the ability to try to explain can be found below....
| Quote: | I 'll tell you what...I would prefer we use tried and PROVEN methods instead of always trying to fix what isn't broken. It isn't that we should try new things, its trying them without empirical evidence to show that it is successful.
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In your previous post, you contradicted yourself with the data you presented about our SAT scores and Alumni survey "Proving" that their were ineffective methods at use, but now say we should travel back to those same "PROVEN" methods.
Second, this concept is not a new thing and has been used in other states, districts, and towns......If we are truly trying to promote self-direction, motivation, and a valued education system, then we need to help foster this in our students. This pilot, allows the student to do all of these things, while mastering content and skill sets.
| Quote: | Perhaps you are right, Anja....we should all just throw our hands up in the air a give up because the newest and greatest fad is being forced upon us by 'professionals'. I mean, we have only become the greatest country on earth and how we were educating our kid was totally backwards....after all, those methods of teaching that brought us all here was a tragedy....
yes Peter, drama!!
We are buying into a continual down grade in educating our kids. I speak to many business leaders that can not find anyone with much work ethic. Who gives a crap about grades if no one wants to work hard. That's right....the jobs no Americans want.....the one where effort is required. We are teaching our kids that work is not required. |
This is the same contradiction that you had made prior. The old method was not working, and the business owners cannot find the motivation and self directioin, etc... that students NEED in order to survive. This pilot places responsibility and students grades into their hands. Instead of just settling on the "C" and possibly doing better next time, they take the "C" make corrections, and come in and prove that they know or can do more... They see with their OWN HARD WORK and OWN MOTIVATION they have the ability to succeed. At the end of the day they walk out of the classroom either way....knowing "C" quality and quantity of information......or working harder for "B" quality and quantity informatinon. Which would you rather have our students knowing or having?
So, prior to passing judgement on a method that PROFESSIONALS have been using for years, in all industries, I feel as if we should see if the process works before we down play it entirely.
And for that reason, we have piloted the program, instead of just up and changing the grading system.
Thank you for your time, and I hope to be able to answer more of your questions.
Sincerely,
Justin Ballou
CHS Social Studies.
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User: A Town Resident
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Posted: 2009/10/09 4:06pm |
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| It has been previously called Competency Based Learning
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/09 4:28pm |
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Libertygal,
| Quote: | | After skimming through the posts about this pilot grading progam, I don't see an official name for it. Does it have one? I'd like to do some of my own research on it. Thanks. |
If you search for research on Formative and Summative Assessments, you will find information from numerous sources. Also, a book by the name of "The Art and Science of Teaching," by an author with the last name Marzano, (sp...) oulines the ideas set forth for effective education practices.
Some links of interest.... intended as a starting point. Please note, that these are both websites of Educational institutions, or sub sites of such))
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/edtech/etc667/proposal/evaluation/summative_vs._formative.htm
http://www.cmu.edu/teaching/principles/index.html
Also, if you google "formative and summative evaluation in education" one of the first things that pops up is the Scholarly commentary and publications. Clicking on this will bring you to a series of data driven sites that help to show the academic side of the process.
I also encourage you to look for where the idea of the Formative and Summative process can be seen in the training used for the "real world," (internships, practicums, student teaching, pre med, pre vet, pilots, Chefs, etc...) and how the concept can be taken a step further outside of the classroom and into the real world itself.
Example: (Used in a source above) A chef may take minor tastes, in order to add ingredients to a desert so it tastes good. He may ask others to taste and ask what it needs. He makes the changes and serves the desert. Even if the customer doesnt like it, the resteraunt does not get rid of the desert, instead comes up with a new method or recipe and tries again......
I hope this helps,
Thanks!
Justin Ballou
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User: Peter Moore
Name: Peter Moore
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Posted: 2009/10/09 4:33pm |
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In response to Jason:
Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean it can't be improved. I think it's good to have willingness to explore new ways of doing things.
Now, personally, I wouldn't have half of our classes try this stuff out, but rather a more conservative - i.e. smaller - portion of the population. I somewhat agree with you there. Your other concerns are valid, too. Anyone along the curve may be hurt by improper preparation... those in the middle as well at the extremes.
One worry you have, from what I've read here, is that students will end up choosing to not do homework. However, I believe I just read that homework is still required. They can choose NOT to sign up for the "contract", but if they do, it ends up with more required assignments. Either way, there are still required assignments. Seems to me that accepting and completing a contract is going to get the student to understand the material more completely. (Now, for me, I would not allow the higher of the two grades to stand, but would allow either an average, or the ability to raise the initial grade some amount.)
This program seems to allow students to get more out of their education. That's the ultimate goal, right?
Thank God that we still don't think mud huts and tepees are PROVEN methods of building a home...
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User: Jason
Name: Jason Guerrette
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User: Chris
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Posted: 2009/10/09 9:43pm |
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| There is a "study" or a "professional opinion" to support or back-up ANY program. That is why it is so important that we not blindly trust anyone that is making these decisions for us. It's okay to trust, so long as you verify. Ask many questions, follow up, hold accountable, and analyze the results.
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/10 12:26am |
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Jason,
The link you provide looks to be a personal opinion of a program that is far off of what we are doing with the pilot.
| Quote: | | The following statement from OBE literature is typical: "OBE schools are expected to become `success based' rather than `selection oriented' by establishing the instructional management procedures and delivery conditions which enable all students to learn and demonstrate those skills necessary for continued success." OBE salespersons don't tell parents that "success" for all children means "success" in demonstrating only the dumbed-down outcomes that the slowest learners in the class can attain. OBE means "success" in mediocrity rather than excellence. |
Actually, the outcomes for the pilot are based upon student initiative to THEIR own education, instead of a labeled objective. Those students that excel early are given more material and a more rigorous and copious information and concepts to help reinforce goals and ideals. If anything, those that understand are able to accelerate their leaning at their own pace through subsequent content, while those that struggle to understand and use the content and skill sets that are being taught are given a different approach rather than just letting them "deal with what they earned"
| Quote: | | 3 OBE offers no method of accountability to students, parents, teachers, or taxpayers. Since OBE includes no objective standards of achievement that are measurable, it will be years and millions of tax dollars into the future before we know whether schoolchildren are learning anything important or are wasting their time. Educators admit that OBE is very expensive since each student works at his own pace at mastering every outcome/skill/behaviour until he succeeds. Perhaps this is what they mean by "lifelong learning." |
In fact, there is just the same amount of accountability or more, since the pilot has designated objectives of both content and skill sets that are to be mastered.. The expense part is non existent due to the fact that the teachers "teaching" time is not effected, rather the student understands completely what they need to do in order to master material or skill sets. This is what allows students to take control of their education, and with strong communication with the families that the students belong to, can promote better habits...thus relinquishing the NEED for retaes, since positive habits are both fostered and rewarded.
| Quote: | For as long as most of us can remember, secondary schools have been structured on a measurable grid called the "Carnegie units." The traditional high school curriculum includes four units of English; three units each of mathematics, science and social studies; two units each of arts and humanities; a unit of health and physical education; and several electives. After you complete enough units (usually 21), you receive a high school diploma and colleges will admit you.
Outcome-Based Education tosses these traditional units out the window and replaces them with vague and subjective "learning outcomes" that cannot be measured objectively by standardized tests and for which there is no accountability to parents and taxpayers. OBE will make it virtually impossible to conduct any kind of tests that allow comparisons with students in other schools, other states, or prior years. Under OBE, grades have no relation to academic achievement and knowledge. Colleges will have no criteria by which to judge whether students are ready for admission. |
This is just ludicrous in the fact that there are STILL and WILL ALWAYS BE graduation requirements for the classes to get a diploma, (as cited in the first paragraph). Grades themselves represent the true knowledge base of what students know and have mastered, (in both content and skill sets) since students are no longer given credit for the amount of work they do, but rather the quality of work they do.
| Quote: | | 4 OBE is a dumbed-down egalitarian scheme that stifles individual potential for excellence and achievement by holding the entire class to the level of learning attainable by every child. To accomplish this, children are placed in Politically Correct groups (race, ethnicity, gender, class) for "cooperative learning" and may be given a group grade instead of individual grades. Cooperative learning researchers admit that the purpose of this strategy is to eliminate grading and competition in the classroom. This is the essence of OBE and explains why all measurable criteria — standardized tests, the Carnegie units, traditional subject-matter, and report cards — must be eliminated. |
If anything, again, Individual education is at the focus of the pilot. If students excel in what they are doing, then they are given work with more demanding requirements and accelerated Rigor. Their learning is promoted to higher levels while the students that do not understand are learning content and skill sets in multiple formats as opposed to settling for the "status quo"
Second, we are not trading work and responsibility for just "group work and Group grades" Students are STILL responsible for their individual learning and are given multiple methods to insure that they learn in the best way that they can. Once they have mastered, the info and concepts get more difficult to accomodate in continually building the students knowlege base, both qualitatively and quantitatively, (Honors option....)
| Quote: | | In an OBE system, academic and factual subject matter is replaced by vague and subjective learning outcomes. According to OBE guru Bill Spady, "the traditional subject-based curriculum disappears" from OBE. New OBE report cards substitute check marks for grades, focusing on general skills, attitudes, and behaviours instead of individual subjects. |
This could not be further from the truth. ALL of the factual matter is still present and is expected from the student. Check marks may be assigned, but only AFTER the teacher has read through the answers and seen that the assignment is complete and warrants it being signaled as so. A student does NOT receive a grade or symbol promoting completion if the assignment is not complete.
| Quote: | | 6 A high percentage of OBE "outcomes" concern values, attitudes, opinions and relationships rather than objective information. A large number of OBE's goals are affective (concerned with emotions and feelings) rather than academic (concerned with knowledge and skills). OBE requires students to meet vague psychological objectives relating to self-esteem, ethical judgment, and adaptability to change. Moving from one level to the next, and even graduation, is dependent on meeting behaviour-change requirements and government-mandated attitudes. |
In ALL lessons, objectives are clearly stated in both knowledge and skill sets in order for the students learning to be measured both critically and accurately. Students are given objectives that are clear so tat they know SPECIFICALLY what is expected by the end of the lesson.....that way it is clear to both the teacher and th student what has been learned.
At this point in the document, it seems as if the author gets side tracked in the fact of their own beliefs in morals and religion.....making me feel that this is more of a "moral" reaction to a method with justification, rather than a data driven assessment of a program. Facts listed here after include a "conspiracy" of the first grade to NOT teach their children to read...
To be honest, this website looks more to be an opinion, "A Theory Of Civilization
by Philip Atkinson" which is his own personal beliefs of what is going on.....
More propaganda than fact. (go to the home page: http://www.ourcivilisation.com/ to see the other subjects he speaks of.... more opinion than anything....)
Or you can read about the Author himself: http://www.ourcivilisation.com/author.htm
in order to see why he writes and thinks the way he does. Doesn't seem to carry much credibility at all as an academic, scholar,or professional.
Thanks for your time, and I look forward to fielding more of your questions.
Sincerely,
Justin Ballou
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/10 12:40am |
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More by Philip Atkinson:
http://www.gnn.tv/threads/26858/Think_Tank_Suggests_Bush_should_be_President_For_Life
Cited in the first lines as "Conquering the Drawbacks of Democracy"
Please read and decide for yourself the credibility of the Author cited in the post above.
My point is not to oppose his views, but rather point out the fact that this opinion cited is one not of an educated individual with a background in education or pedagogy, but instead an individual with a set ideal and agenda to push.
I believe that those commenting on becoming educated as to what we are trying to do are correct in saying so.....and we should all heed the advice and draw information ad data from wherever possible before making any solid decisions.
Regards,
Justin Balou
Thanks
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User: MOMwithAbrain
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Posted: 2009/10/10 2:52pm |
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I have a few questions. The Asian countries outperform the US in mathematics per TIMSS consistently. If we look to those top performing countries, are they using this kind of program in their classes? What does countries like Singapore, Korea or Japan do that's different ? Is this program modeled after a Singapore classroom? I would think if one wanted to improve the quality of academics in a classroom, one would look to the top performing countries to see what they are doing.
Or I suppose we can look locally. I'm not aware of Trinity High School, Bishop Guertin H.S. or Bishop Brady using this program in their schools. Yet those students are succeeding at the collegiate level. How do they prepare students for college yet their students do not follow the policy of test- re-test?
Shouldn't we look to schools who are exceeding expectations, preparing students for college and look at why they succeed?
Pilot programs have been tried and tested in school districts across the country, only to have failed many students. I think parents are concerned their child will be another guinea pig in that process.
_________________
"Cafeteria-style education, combined with the unwillingness of our schools to place demands on students, has resulted in a steady diminishment of commonly shared information between generations and between young people themselves."...E. D. Hirsch Jr. |
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User: A Town Resident
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Posted: 2009/10/10 3:30pm |
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The schools that you mention do not put up with the crap that teachers in public schools do from kids who do not want to be in school ... two of my kids went to Pinkerton, two to BG ... my youngest had to work very hard at BG ... the older one had to learn how to study ... more based on time management than anything else ... the younger took a summer course at BG on how to study ... also did a pre-algebra course during the summer since she was not able to understand the concept when she was at LMS ... she was successful with Algebra I, Algebra II and Geometry at BG ...
There must be accountability on the part of the student and parents ... if students don't do the work and the parents aren't asking the appropriate question of their child, it will not matter what method of teaching is used ... it won't matter what new gadgets are purchased to "help" the kids if they don't want to learn ... and that is totally up to the parents. It is their responsibility to see that the kids do the work and learn.
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User: MOMwithAbrain
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Posted: 2009/10/10 4:16pm |
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As someone who's tutored incoming college freshman in math, the remedial issue does deserve attention. I'm just not convinced yet, that the test/re-test is the best approach.
Many incoming freshman lack basic math skills. When you talk to the math professors, they will often times point you directly to the curriculum used in the schools as the source of the problem. This makes sense.
Kids needing remediation are capapble learners, however they did not master basic arithmetic. The math professors will point directly to the math programs and note that the program itself didn't require mastery of the concepts. http://mathwizards.wordpress.com/category/math-videos/
If you go to the web site above and click on : Math Education: University View, you will note the criticism is directed at the math programs being used in the classrooms. They do not require mastery of basic arithmetic.
When a student gets to Algebra, being able to multiply/divide fractions is an absolute MUST. Doing it with fluency is why some kids have the advantage over others.
Schools often times do not use rote memorization. They consider it a bad word. Yet in my experience, those who memorized basic math facts were the best students in the higher level math classes. Those who struggled were often times the ones who were never required to master the material because the program never required it.
My concern is that this pilot program doesn't address curriculum that lacks quality academics.
Can the Litchfield 8th graders pass this test? Are they required to learn this material? http://www.rense.com/general75/pass.htm If this is not studied, then taking a test/re-test which doesn't cover quality material doesn't do much to help the students.
Discipline problems are not solved by a test/re-test policy either. So I'm truly missing how again, this program solves these problems.
Looks like this program will be discussed on NPR http://nhpr.org/node/27325
Revolutionizing New Hampshire High Schools
By Laura Knoy on Tuesday, October 13, 2009.
This year a new system for tracking student progress, called "competency based assessment" is supposed to be set up. Assessment, organizers say, is about demonstrating mastery of the material instead of grades or attendance. But as progress moves forward on the system, many educators have more questions that need to be answered – and doubts to be addressed – before they jump on board. We'll look at the system and how it might change our schools.
Guests
Fred Bramante, Past chair and current member of the New Hampshire Board of Education
Mark Joyce, Executive Director of the New Hampshire School Administrators Association
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"Cafeteria-style education, combined with the unwillingness of our schools to place demands on students, has resulted in a steady diminishment of commonly shared information between generations and between young people themselves."...E. D. Hirsch Jr.
Last edited by MOMwithAbrain on 2009/10/11 8:12am; edited 1 time in total |
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User: A Town Resident
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Posted: 2009/10/10 4:48pm |
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| This is where I can see the "good ol' days" being so much better ... we were leveled according to our abilities ... A and B levels were more than likely headed to higher education C level were headed to vocational schools or college, depending on how much effort was put in ... D and E well hopefully they came away with the basic skills to survive ... I understand the concept of integration but is it always the best solution?
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User: MOMwithAbrain
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Posted: 2009/10/10 9:37pm |
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I thought of two more questions.
Who will be making up the assessments?
Will the students be assessed only on academic content or anything else?
Can parents get a preview of these assessments?
Thank You
_________________
"Cafeteria-style education, combined with the unwillingness of our schools to place demands on students, has resulted in a steady diminishment of commonly shared information between generations and between young people themselves."...E. D. Hirsch Jr. |
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/11 11:24am |
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Mom with a Brain,
To answer your questions.....
| Quote: | I thought of two more questions.
Who will be making up the assessments?
Will the students be assessed only on academic content or anything else?
Can parents get a preview of these assessments?
Thank You |
Teachers create assessments based upon the contents and skill sets that are parts of the curriculum, textbooks, and supplimentary materials. These assessments are based upon the objectives and goals for what the student should know or be able to do, and test stated goals that both the teacher and student are aware of as lessons progress.
After the Summative Assessment, many students wish to take the retake allowed for either intrinsic motivations, ("I can do Better...") or extrinsic motivations, ("If I do not do better, my mom is going to kill me.....") At this point, I have devised a contract that sets out WHY the grade was earned the first time, what is going to be done to help relearn the information, and what the opportunity will be in order to show the fact that they have mastered both content and skill sets. The student, teacher, and PARENT all sign off on the fact of the retake so that all get the same information.
Your third questions answer is both yes and no......Yes, if the assignment is a project, research paper, speech, etc since their is an assignment description and rubric that is handed out so students understand expectations. No if it is a test or quiz, since the students know their is a test that is going to happen, and I hand out a brief review to assist in studying, along with online games, activities and tools specific to the tests. To hand out the test itself would allow the "teaching to the test" concept that we do not want occurring, since the grades and assessment would not meet with the goal of either.....
A: helping us to modify instructional practices and
B: Finding out what the students know or can do.
Please let me know if there is anything else that I can help you with!
Have a great Sunday,
Justin Ballou
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User: MOMwithAbrain
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Posted: 2009/10/11 4:34pm |
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Can you tell me what kind of "skill sets" you will be assessing?
Who sets the standards/ and or "objectives" and "goals" for the "skill sets"? Would that be the NH Dept of Ed?
Are there any conclusive studies that show this has worked as a comprehensive reform strategy?
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"Cafeteria-style education, combined with the unwillingness of our schools to place demands on students, has resulted in a steady diminishment of commonly shared information between generations and between young people themselves."...E. D. Hirsch Jr. |
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User: Justin Ballou
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Posted: 2009/10/11 9:26pm |
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MomwithAbrain,
The skill sets that I speak of are skills that students sould leave with. Some include, but are not limited to research techniques, public speaking, writing for a specific audience, etc....
The objectives for each lesson are outlined by the teacher. In my class, at the beginning of every lesson, I actually begin with the statement, "By the end of todays class, you should be able to....." and then define logical and obtainable objectives. Some may be as simple as defining key terms and ideas or more complex as to compare and contrast different theories, or formulate a stance on an issue. These lessons are based on the content standards and identified learning goals at both the national and state level. (a quick google search for the NHCSS Social Studies Standards can turn up the document and has much insight at the goals that are expected to be reached at seperate grade levels.)
This technique has been identified in research and educational journals as being effective, and is taught in Teacher Ed. Methods classes at the University and College level due to the fact that these "plain as Day" goals can be seen by both the teacher and the sudent, while the objectives can be measured by professionally designed and implemented assessments.
This standard is used in the real world as well in businesses and the "Work World" and can be seen in many avenues including meeting agendas, project objectives and goal setting for industry and technology.
With this real world application in the controlled environment of the classroom, students are able to see what they should be learning, use methods to learn, assess their learning, and then complete self analysis to see where they are in order to make changes or adaptations in order to fulfill objectives and maximizeboth their learning and their potential.
Thanks for asking these questions. I hope that my answers are helping to clarify issues that you have been identifying.
Have a great evening,
Justin Ballou
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